A CITIZEN'S BLOG

I've been saying all offseason that we have to remember that Santana has replaced Tom Glavine. It's not as they just added 200 innings and 20 wins to their staff. They subtracted 13-15 wins and 200 innings first.

No doubt that Santana is clearly an upgrade over Glavine, but it's worth nothing while adding a great pitcher they lost who was likely their best/most consistent hurler as well.
 

lets not forget that of the 162 game season, 16 are against the Phils and Pat Burrell (the mets killer) during his contract year! We can even lose every Santana game and win only most of the rest and still obliterate the Mutts.
 

My god are you guys delusional
 

Lets not forget about the Braves... If and that's a big if, their starting rotation is healthy, both the Mets and us better worry.
 

Pedro replaces Glavine....don't forget that...the mets got a few starts from a weakened pedro martinez basically rehabbing.

Santana and Pedro are both additions to the staff. Maine and Perez sliding down to the 3/4 slots is huge.
 

Did you happen to forget that when it was all said and done, the Mets lost the division by a single game last year? You don't think the single best pitcher in the game of baseball will make a single game difference at least? Get real.
 

"Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?"

Yes.. yes I do.. he won 15 games last season. Do you feel comfortable giving the ball to Adam Eaton? or Kris Benson
 

John Maine got the ball on the 2nd to last game last season and responded with 14 k's and a near no-hitter. You, sir, are an imbecile of the highest order, and thus, I lol.

LOL!!
 

I am a Mets fan, and no, I'm not gonna rip the Phillies. But, c'mon do you Phillies fans truly believe you are the favorites? A yes one player can make a difference if that player is Johan, especially because it means that John Maine and Oliver Perez are now bumped down to the 3 and 4 spots. I don't think the Phillies are crappy or anything like that, but like I said, c'mon. We had more to do with your playoff run that you guys actually did. We probably should have won the division by 15 games. But, YES, a bad taste in in everyones mouth about it. But, anyways, I strongly assume we will be ahead of you by at least 10 games before seasons end. I do not even believe you are our rival, our rival is Atlanta. So, when when you are eliminated from the playoffs in August this year, dont worry, you can always root for the Eagles...........
 

Of course JasonB, you forget the Mets didnt have Pedro last year, thus replacing Glavines departure for '08. Your argument is bunk---

and you have to be kidding right? comparing the acquisition of Santana to Mo Vaughn and Jeremy Burnitz? sounds like we are getting into YOUR heads-hahaha
 

You one by one game. ONE GAME!! And in order for that to happen we had to implode, and you had to have career years from 3 or 4 of your players. Its never going to happen again.
 

This is hilarious that more Mets fans read this crappy site than Phillies fans do. LETS GO METS
 

4 very poor reasons to tell you the truth.

"Mo Vaughn, Roberto Alomar, and Jeremy Burnitz. And the Mets finished seven games worse than they did the previous season. History is against the Mets here"

Look who you said.. The only player that was expected to be good was Alomar a 2B.

Santana means the Mets rotation is that much deeper. Phillies rotation is horrible.

Santana means a better rested bullpen.

Duaner Sanchez brings what the Mets had in 2006.

Phillies will win 84 games Mets will win 95
 

Thank you for being so constructive with this entry. I have just discovered your blog after reading BeerLeaguer for a while and yours is refreshing. Beerleaguer seems to always look on the down-side to every issue (granted, in true Philadelphia fashion), but it is important to be optimistic, especially when there is so much to be hopeful about (let's go Savery!)

go phils.
 

Perez and Maine each won 15 games last year, and Maine was in his first full year in the bigs and Perez was coming off an awful year and was still learning the craft from Peterson - I would hand EITHER pitcher the ball with the season on the line this year.

Not to mention, Pedro is healthy.

That's FOUR top flight starters... but that's right, the Phillies have Jamie Moyer
 

The Phillies are the team to beat because of Jeromy Burnitz in 2002? Your logic is beyond flawed, it is moronic.
 

I am a Braves fan, and what do the Phillies think they have any buisness in this convo? Last year was a fluke the NL East is Braves vs. Mets .....the Phillies are just a urinal for us to piss on, get back in your toilets Phillies fans!
 

the mets staff terrible. it was so bad that their 3-4 starters (maine and perez) won 15 games last year. you know, as many as the phillies ace, cole hamels.

it's unreal how little credit you guys are giving santana.
 

does the moron who wrote this honestly believe a player like burnitz or vaughn is of the same caliber as Johan freakin Santana?

and does he really think the mets rotation is a weakness? i mean, who would you rather have at the back end of your rotation - maine, perez and el duque or moyer, kendrick and eaton?
 

Brett Myers is a criminal

Jimmy Rollins is a criminal

Pat Burrell is a moron

Tom Gordon...lol

Charlie Manuel could very well be retarded

You guys couldnt even get Mike Lowell to play for you for god sakes....

Good luck imbreeds
 

Cole Hamels is a pussy, and he's your ace. Remember that he wasnt even going to come back from injury last year so he wouldnt hurt HIS future? Geez id be pissed at him if i were you. By the way, your center fielder is Shane Victorino......which is a bad thing.....ok then, have fun competing with the Nationals
 

The Phils have a good offensive team and have upgraded certain positions in the offseason. After Hamels and Myers, the Philly rotation isn't that great. And the huge question mark is the bullpen. Lidge is now hurt and i dont think people are really scared of Gordon, if he struggles, does Myers go back to the bullpen?

The Phillies did a good job of beating the Mets whenever they faced them, but the Mets still only lost by 1 game and it was really the Mets imploding than more than the Phillies seizing the division. If the Mets bullpen all didn't decide to take the month off at the same time, we wouldnt have this discussion.
 

So because of what happened six years ago, the Mets will not win the division. Some sound thinking there.

I absolutely feel confortable handing the ball to John Maine on any given day. Do you Phillie fans feel confortable handing the ball to the likes of Jamie Moyer or Adam Eaton in a must win situation?

How about getting Sanchez and Pedro back healthy, and the trade for Church, who last year put up better offensive numbers than all the Mets right fielders, and Schneider, who wont be Piazza but will play Gold Glove caliber defense. And ya, Delgado is not the Toronto Delgado, but he already said he is going to make adjustments this year. And how about the fact that the Phillies lost an All Star center fielder who was one of the best leaders in that clubhouse.

It WAS in their heads. But the minute Johan was signed, all that changed. Jose struggled last season because he was tired. If you saw every game like I did that would be clear. Randolph has already said hed rest him more. Do you think he will struggle or do you want him to?

How about some reasons why the Mets might be the team to beat? It doesnt seem fair to only talk about the Mets problems does it? How is Brad Lidge going to do under the massive pressure of Philadelphia, while pitching in that bandbox? He's shown before he doesnt do well under pressure. How is Brett Myers going to respond to returning to the rotation? Its not as easy as it sounds. How is the loss of Rowand going to effect the team on and off the field? Doesnt your pitching seem a bit suspect?

And just for the record, the Phillies are the team to beat. They won it last year, so I give them that respect. But Id still be pretty much shocked if the Mets dont come out on top barring a major catastrophe.
 

Did... did you just compare Johan Santana to Roberto Alomar, Mo Vaughn and Jeremy Burnitz?

Go. Go sit in the corner. Take a time-out.
 

LETS GO METS!!!!!!!!!
 

Why dont you guys go eat a cheesesteak and beat your wife like Myers does.....
 

Don't worry after August 27th, when the Mets clinch, you guys can worry about how Donovan McNabb will blow the year
 

lets not also forget the phillies are gay.
 

Wow~! You guys are nothing but a bunch of haters, ya'll need to realize that John Maine can still take the ball and knock you guys out, oh and are fifth starter, el duque was a pitcher who stopped who's hit streak??? oh yeah~! someone's 2nd baseman, hmmm..... talking about our pitching is not in favor for you guys, anyone wanna mention who the Mets had 3 consecutive homeruns against?? wasn't it someone ace....??? oh yeah, soem dude named cole hamels.....

You guys have nothing on us... the phillies are not the favorite, they don't have pitching the mets do, and i'll place the mets offense against the phillies offense anyday.
 

REASONS THE PHILLIES ARE NOT WORTH TALKING ABOUT:

1.) Charlie Manuel (how long will it take before they want to fire him...again)

2.) Brad Lidge and Tom Gordon..good luck with that

3.) Cole Hamels is gutless

4.) No more Rowand, enter Victarino....

5.) Howard + Burrell = 836 errors

6.) The Mets 1,2,3,4 and 5 starters are better than the Phillies 1,2,3,4 and 5 starters

7.) Philadelphia is cursed
 

Everyone, Met and Phillie fan alike, is now dumber for reading this. No where, in your incoherent rambling did you approach a clear and rational throught. I award you no points.


Only once, did you post a somewhat intelligent throught. You are correct, there are 162 games to play.

Nice!
 

LETS GO METS!!!
 

Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?

8Ip, 0er, 1 hit

Why yes we do!
 

Howard couldn't hit a lefty if his bat was the size of an airplane... Johan will eat you guys up
 

LETS GO METS!!!!!!! LETS GO METS!!!!!
LETS GO METS!!!!
 

is this a joke? how can you knock john main who would have been the phillies #2 and should have been an all-star last year. adding santana isn't just a pitcher - he's the best pitcher and by adding him everyone else moves back meaning out 3-4 in the rotation could be a 2-3 for just about every other team, and in duque we have a ridiculous capable, albeit fragile, fifth starter. don't talk to me about alomar and mo vaughn, because you might as well be saying vince coleman and bobby bonilla - 6 years in baseball is a lifetime (just ask the giants). terrible post
 

god you are an idiot...anyone who argues a NL team other than ari is better than the mets is clearly delusional. i will admit, rarely can 1 person make a significant difference, but lets not forget 3 things:

1) we added pedro, johan, duaner, and church. thats 4 people.

2) 1 player can make up a 1 game difference.

3) rarely is one player named JOHAN FREAKING SANTANA.
 

Wow talk about grasping at straws. Age? you mention one player so therefore the entire team is getting old?

Yes I think Willie is very confident in John Maine to start the last game. The same John Maine that shut down the Cards in Game 6 of the 06 NLCS and won 15 games last year at age 26. Show me the Phillies #3 starter with that track record.

Its in their heads? Ok, didn't realize you were a psychic. Don't we need one month of one sided wins by one team before we determine a team is in another teams head?

The 02 Mets? really? Which players from that team are on this one? How's the history argument work for the Red sox?

Dude, I know its February but you have to try harder. And any of you Phil fans who think 13 wins by santana with a bad Twins team in the AL, is going to translate to the same numbers here...well I have some swamp land for you to buy.
 

Well it can't be all bad in Philly. I mean they did add Anna Benson. Reportedly many Phillies players are excited with the prospect of getting blown by a plastic surgery enhanced stripper. One former closer turned starter has even said:

"I'd Hit it"
 

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I'm not going to bash the Philly players. Rollins is a horse and outside of Reyes could start for me anytime, same with Utley. The real difference is in the rotations.

Santana v Hamels- King Cole is good but he ain't THAT good.
Pedro v. Myers- The only thing Brett can beat is his wife
Maine v. Kendrick - As close to even as these two teams get but still Maine won 15 last year and Kendrick needs to prove he can do it for more than one season.
Perez v. Moyer - Jamie is old enough to be Ollie dad for christ sake
El Duque/Pelfrey v. Eaton/Benson - Good luck with that one Phillie phans.

The Mets have the upper hand in the bullpen too with Dirty Sanchez coming back and Lidge being, well Lidge.

In a season where the Phillies won the division by one game and the Mets signed the Best Pitcher in Baseball and got Pedro back at full strength, the balance of power has shifted back to the Mets. That's not to say the Phillies suck or won't even make the playoffs, but they won't win the division this year.
 

How does adding Johan Santana and a healthy Pedro to the Mets rotation equal a downgrade?

Phil's offense should be great but that pitching staff coupled with the suspect defense on the right side of the infield and left and right outfield in that tiny ballpark is going to have a very tough time.

Braves pending health and the Mets look like the top two teams.
 

Yeah, that's right. Who would you rather have - the best pitcher in baseball or Tom Glavine?


I am not going to indulge all this Mets are the team to beat talk, but I will say this:

Discount the value of Johan Santana at your own peril. I can't wait for the first time he strikes out 10 and pitches a shut out against the Phils. And you can take it to the bank - its going to happen at some point.

Don't tempt fate.
 

you could have at least spelled "WAVE" correctly
 

how does it feel to have a wife beater on your team?
 

Im a Phillies fan, and even I gotta say you made no sense. For basically all the reasons everyone else said. You did not make me feel any more confident going into the season than I did before I read this. The Mets will win the division, and the Phillies Id like to think will win the wild card. I think the Phillies can take the Diamondbacks, but facing the Mets in the NLCS... Id like to say Philly, but Im not sure I can.
 

Too funny. Mets fans are all over this origianl post, which makes some pretty good points.

I think another "tell" that the Mets are starting the season behind the Phils in power rankings, is the raving of Mets fans right here. They're sacred...you can smell it.

The first month of the season will really set a fun tone. Can't wiat!!!
 

LOL in 2002 the mets spent on washed up has beens. This is Johan Santana age 28 in his prime we r talking about. Philly fans always mention other teams rotations but they forget their rotation and bullpen are worse then the braves and mets. Your Ace Hamels had the same wins and a higher ERA then johan in 2007 and johan had a "terrible" year according to most. Your offense carried you and you lost your #5 hitter All star centerfielder. Philly can hide from reality but its going to hit you soon. Mets choked 2007 away themselves and still almost held on. PS dont forget Pedro is healthy and he went 3-1 in the last month of 07. Reality is coming. 2007 was your year but you wasted it in a 1st round sweep.
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270929121

The Mets are very comfortable bringing out John Maine on the last game of the season!!!!!
 

Let's see if your logic holds true for your own team:

1. History - The Phillies have the losingest franchise in HISTORY. That clearly is worse than having a bad 2002 team.

2. Numbers - Basically your only significant addition was Brad Lidge (who is already injured and coming off surgery) to put Myers back in the rotation. Even with Myers and injury prone Hamill, you still need need pitchers for the 110-120 games that they cannot pitch. Do you really feel comfortable, Phillies fans, with Chollie handing the ball to John Adam Eaton on the last game of the season?


3. The Aging of their Roster: Your closer is already down and his replacement is old, injury prone Tom Gordon. He better not struggle in the beginning of the season or the Phillies are in trouble.

4. It's in their heads: Mets have moved on from last year with the addition of Santana. The Phillies are living in the past, thrilled to have won something and with a built in excuse for 2008: "Well we won the NL East in 2007"....
 

Phil By the way last I checked Maine won as many games as pretty boy Hamels. So yeah I dont mind if he starts the last game of the season.

At least take rational arguments to the table, angry, miserable philly fans
 

Wow. Is this a Mets blog or Phillies blog? LOL

FYI, the Mets didn't sign Alomar as a free agent. He came over in the trade that sent Alex Escobar to the Indians. Get your facts straight dude!!!

All the Mets have to do is win 2 more games down the stretch and the Phillies don't get in. The Mets gave that division to the Phillies. The Phillies didn't win it... as they went out and showed the following week by not even winning a game in the playoffs! So tell me the big difference between the Mets and Phillies? Each team went home without a win in the playoffs.

BA ZING!!

LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!
 

wow u retart john maine could be a #1 starter if he was on the phillies and ur saying were not comfortable giving the ball to him? wowwwww maybe you should chech wat maine did game 6 of 2006 and the 2nd to last game last season and notice how he does in pressure spots
 

Mets fans are going to overrun your Citizen's ball park and your webpage

GO METS!!!!!!!

Myers is an A-hole
 

And THAT'S what happens when your blog link gets posted on metsblog.com. Ouch.
 

The Mets have a few more changes than just Santana for 2008. They have a healthy Pedro Martinez, a healthy Duaner Sanchez, and Ryan Church is the right fielder, instead of Shawn Green.

It's a shame that you're using the Mets rotation as a weakness, when the rotation is the Mets strength and a clearly a much more superior asset than the Phillies "rotation".
 

IF HISTORY IS AGAINST THE METS THEN WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE PHILLIES.

I MEAN REALLY HISTORY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MEMORY WAITING FOR A NEW ONE TO BE WRITTEN
ALA THIS YEARS FOOTBALL GIANTS FOR EXAMPLE.

I look forward to seeing how this ends up and barring injuries look forward to a great 3 team race.
 

Philadelphia Phillies. The team to beat in the East? LOL! Come on now. To bring up 2001 is a joke, 2002 was a joke. The Phillies were the lucky team that the mets choked. And what did the Phillies do in the Playoffs? THEY GOT SWEPT, RICKROLLED, PUNKED! So please, what did the Phillies do to get better? Lidge? He is injured..

SANTANA is not only a pitcher...he is the best pitcher in BASEBALL...believe me the METS are back!

Phillies finish third. Mets win 99 games this year, braves 84 games and Phillies win 78.

Mr. Met
 

Considering the Phils beat the Mets out for the division by just one game, that the Phils pitching staff played well above its abilities (I'd rather give the ball to John Maine than Jamie Moyer), and still Mets had to totally collapse for that event to occur, YES--I'd say the addition on Johan Santana would swing the division. In fact, even by the original author's admission, that Santana adds a few wins, the Mets would be the favorite.

P.S. I also really like that the author bases the "aging roster" on a single player. Forget that the three best offensive players are either in their prime or reaching it. Forget that the Ace is in his prime, and two other starters suggest they are still improving. If you want to make an argument fine, but when you distort the fact you look like an idiot.
 

"Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?"

Actually...yes. Oliver Perez or El Duque might have been better bets as examples. Or Mike Pelfrey, I don't think any Mets fan has a problem handing the ball to John Maine in an important game...but nice try!
 

I love how when phillies fans mention last season.... they mention the collapse before they mention the title they won... hahaha


The Philadelphia Philthies: The oldest team in baseball with no history worth mentioning...
 

j0hn m4in3 pwnz
 

Lets just go through this point by point and let me show you how stupid this post is. Obviously the person who wrote it knows nothing about the Mets or baseball in general.
1) History repeats itself.
You can not even compare Vaughn, Alomar and Burnitz to the the aquisition of Santana! Those three players were has-beens way past their primes when the Mets brought them in and the rest of the team stunk around them. Santana is arguably the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career! Not even close in the comparison. And if you want to compare past history, how about when the last time the Mets brought in a big star. Does anyone remember when the Mets brought in Mike Piazza!! The team immediately got better by just adding one player.
2) Numbers
Again I point to the example above. One player can make a big difference on a team. And Yes, I do feel very comfortable with Maine on the mound with the season on his shoulders. Did anyone watch the 2nd to last game last year for the Mets. Maine was on the mound with at the time was a must win to remain tied with the Phils. Does anyone remember what he did. He only took a no-hitter into the eight inning!!! It was Glavine who failed when the season was on the line the next day. The same Glavine that you Phils fans think that we are going to miss.
3)Aging of the roster
Yes the Mets do have a few guys who are past their prime (Deglado, Alou, El Duque), but what you forget to mention is the y0ung guys who haven't even come close to their prime yet. (Wright, Reyes, Maine and Pelfrey.) Also, remember Delgado only batted 6th in the order last year and El Duque will be their 5th starter. The old guys will not bring down the team as much as you think.
4)Its in their Heads
Have you heard the talk coming out of Mets camp??? Yes they all probably thought of it all off season, but as soon as games start you think any of them are going to be bothered by it. Come on really.

The fact of the matter is the Phils did not win the division last year. The Mets collapsed and gave it to them. And you have to be honest here from both sides. The Phils do have a slightly better lineup but the Mets do have a much better pitching staff. The addition of Santana made the whole Mets rotation better. It takes the pressure off of Perez and Maine. They are now considered the 3 and 4 pitchers on the staff. Remember both of those guys won 15 games last year. They now have a healthy Pedro back to start the season. His numbers will most likely take the place of Glavines. Santana should easily win 20 games this year moving to the National league into a pitchers ballpark. You can't even compare the Phillies rotation. Outside of Hamels and Myers the rest of the rotation is horrible. And your closer blew 8 out of 27 save chances last year. He has never been the same since Pujols hit that shot off of him.

My honest opinion as a Met fan: There will be a race this year. Mets with their pitching and Phils with their offense. In the end one will win the division and the other will be the wild card.
 

Lets just go through this point by point and let me show you how stupid this post is. Obviously the person who wrote it knows nothing.
1) History repeats itself.
You can not even compare Vaughn, Alomar and Burnitz to the the aquisition of Santana! Those three players were has-beens way past their primes when the Mets brought them in and the rest of the team stunk around them. Santana is arguably the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career! Not even close in the comparison. And if you want to compare history, how about when the last time the Mets brought in a big star. Does anyone remember when the Mets brought in Mike Piazza!! The team immediately got better by just adding one player.
2) Numbers
Again I point to the example above. One plpayer can make a big difference on a team. And Yes, I do feel very comfortable with Maine on the mound with the season on his shoulders. Did anyone watch the 2nd to last game last year for the Mets. Maine was on the mound with at the time was a must win to remain tied with the Phils. Does anyone remember what he did. He only took a no-hitter into the eight inning!!! It was Glavine who failed when the season was on the line the next day. The same Glavine that you Phils fans think that we are going to miss.
3)Aging of the roster
Yes the Mets do have a few guys who are past their prime (Deglado, Alou, El Duque), but what you forget to mention is the y0ung guys who haven't even come close to their prime yet. (Wright, Reyes, Maine and Pelfrey.) And remember Delgado is their 6th batter and El Duque is their 5ht starter. The old guys wont have as much impact on them as you think.
4)Its in their Heads
Have you heard the talk coming out of Mets camp??? Yes they all probably thought of it all off season, but as soon as games start you think any of them are going to be bothered by it. Come on really.

The fact of the matter is the Phils did not win the division last year. The Mets collapsed and gave it to them. And you have to be honest here from both sides. The Phils do have a better lineup but the Mets do have a much better pitching staff. The addition of Santana made the whole Mets rotation better. It takes the pressure off of Perez and Maine. They are now considered the 3 and 4 pitchers on the staff. Remember both of those guys won 15 games last year. They now have a healthy Pedro back to start the season. His numbers will most likely take the place of Glavines. Santana should easily win 20 games this year moving to the National league into a pitchers ballpark. You can't even compare the Phillies rotation. Outside of Hamels and Myers the rest of the rotation is horrible. And your closer blew 8 out of 27 save chances last year. He has never been the same since Pujols hit that shot off of him.

My honest opinion as a Met fan: There will be a race this year. Mets with their pitching and Phils with their offense. In the end one will win the division and the other will be the wild card.
 

Oh and while I don't think the Phils are a bad team at all-I think they will be a tough team to beat this year-I don't buy into this "Cole Hamels matches up with Santana garbage." Hamels is going into his second full year in the league. He has yet to throw 200+ innings in his career. Santana is in his prime and for the last 4 years has thrown well over 200 innings. Hamels is good, no doubt, but he still has to prove he can stay healthy for a full season.

If you discount an ERA that is less than half a run higher...John Maine had better numbers last year than Hamels. Now, Maine definitely faded in the second half and has quite a bit to prove too...but I'm just saying: come up with some valid arguments, stop trying to act like Santana doesn't make much of a difference. It's a stupid approach to take in a debate because you can't win.
 

I'm not here to dis Phils fans, but Mike's most recent post is filled with nonsense. There are never any guarantees, but:

1) Your "history" comment is ridiculous --- first of all, history really doesn't mean a damn thing as far this stuff goes. And there's no way the '02 signings you mentioned can be compared to Santana anyway. Plus, the whole team is different --- the '01-'02 team had managerial problems and was playing over their heads after 9/11. This team has a solid core with multiple proven stars.

2) We lost the division by ONE FREAKING GAME last year, mostly because of poor defense, mental lapses and an overworked bullpen. Adding the best starter in the game makes all the difference, not only to the rotation but taking the stress off the bullpen, offense and defense.
Plus, I would be completely comfortable starting Maine on the last day of the season --- he won 15 games last year, dominated for long stretches, and pitched an 8-inning one-hitter (an infield hit) with 14 Ks on the second-to-last day of the season. And he's projected as our #3 starter.

3) The age thing is overblown. The Mets have plenty of talented young players, and if Delgado even comes close to his '06 production (he will) we will have more than enough offensive firepower.

4) Phillies fans can only hope that the end of '07 is "in their heads." Keep dreaming.
 

I would have no problem handing Maine the ball on the last game of the season.
 

first of all John Maine won 15 games and in a do or die situation pitched a shut out. Last year the mets did not have a pitcher that would dominate, this year they have the best left handed pitcher in the game which hurts the phillies because two of their best hitters are lefties. Its going to be hard to lose 6 games in a row when Johan is pitching in two of them. Second history is history this is the present. Third is the only decent pitcher the phillies have is cole hamels unless brad lidge pitches like he use to on the astros. The phillies have the same team except losing a great outfielder in aaron rowand and getting a struggling closer in brad lidge who just underwent surgery a few days ago. Aging roster? the only "aging players" on the mets are alou (who just happened to hit 341), delgado, and orlando hernandez who will do just fine it the keep him in the bull pen and its good to have some veterans like el duke on a team. We are also getting back a great reliever in duaner sanchez. the phillies are a great team and theres no doubt in my mind they will win at least 90 games if everyone stays healthy, but the same for the mets and more, santana will add at least another 7 wins over what tom glavine did, my prediction is mets win divison with 96 wins, phillies get 92 wins and win wild card as the 2nd best team in the NL and the braves win about 87 game but miss the playoffs. ITS IN YOUR HEAD PHILLIES FANS, IF YOUR LOOKING FOR A REPEAT YOUR SCREWED
 

Holy crap ... You can imagine my reaction when I got back from work, checked my blog and found these comments ...

Basically I found most of them inane and stupid, but some good points were raised:

1. History. Am I equating Burnitz/Vaughn/Alomar with Santana? Well, yeah I am. The '02 Mets added those guys - all very talented players - and actually did worse the next season. My point - lost amidst the vulgarity - is that games are played on grass, not on paper. We won't know what effect Santana is going to have until AFTER we get started. The presumption that the Mets will be the best team in the NL just because they added one player is an arrogant one, to say the least.

2. John Maine. I am skeptical that he'll repeat his success that he enjoyed last season. Remember, Mets fans: he had an ERA of 6.30 in his first season with the Orioles. Let's see what he does this season ...

3. Are the Phillies the team to beat? Notice that I hedged my thoughts on 2008. I think the race between the Mets, Phillies and Braves (yes, somehow people forget about them) is going to be tight, hard-fought and ultimately won by two of the three teams (the wildcard will come out of this division). Read my season preview next month. Could surprise you ...

4. I'll try not to judge all Mets fans on the comments, but ... "Mets fans are going to overrun your Citizen's ball park and your webpage ... GO METS!!!!!!! ... Myers is an A-hole" ... Well, this census of Mets fans doesn't suggest much intellect out there. Looks like the smart New York baseball fans are in the Bronx...

5. Finally, thanks to Metsblog for the link. Probably gave me an all-time one-day record for hits!

Muchas Gracias.
 

Did you watch the 2006 NLCS? Willie handed the ball to John Maine in game 6 with the Mets backs to the wall against the Cardinals ace Carpenter. The Mets won that game. Why would we be afraid now?
 

john maine? mo vaughn? wow you are one hell of a legal eagle with these kind of arguments.
 

OH YEAH YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT CHANCE WITH A ADDITION OF ANNA..I MEAN KRIS BENSON. AND YES I WOULD START JOHN MAINE IN THE LAST GAME OF THE SEASON, THE WRITER OF THIS BLOG MUST OG BEEN ON CRACK WHEN HE WROTE THIS.



TWO WORD BUDDY.....JOHAN SANTANA
 

Ok lets see.
1)The Phillies brought in Lidge. A guy who had prior success but that Pujols shot killed his mentality. So now, not only is Lidge mentally damaged but he is physically damaged with his recent injury. Minus Factor

2) The Phillies let Rowand leave and replaced him with Victorino. Do you really think Victorino is better Rowand? I would argue that Rowand is a better, faster and more clutch (clutchier?) player. Minus factor

3) Myers moves to the Starting group. Ok, two questions. Is he better than whoever the Phillies trotted out..probably yes, except hamels. Durability, Myers has had injury issues and starting him may open him up to longer innings and quite possibly more opportunity for injury. I would say positive factor.

4) Playoff Swept - Yeah, they got rickrolled. Ok..any hangover? you bet. Minus factor

5) Any other additional significant additions? Nope. outside of lidge nothing new. Minus Factor.

So you have 4 minuses and one possible Plus. Yeah, Phillies going down.

Phillies - 78 Wins and the manager gets tossed.

Game Over. Mets win 96-101 games.
 

Dude because a few Mets fans said a few things about Myers being an A-hole that means all the fans are dopes? Yeah another brilliant observation on your part.

My friend you are a Philadelphia sports fan. Does any other fan have a worse reputation??

And once again, your opinion of John Maine is bases soley on sour grapes and hating the Mets because you have no facts to back it up. He had a 6.30 ERA with the O's. How many starts was that?? Last year was the first 200 inning season. Come on bro, get with it. Yet Hamels of course is the real deal as is Adam Eaton? Brett Myers who got dumped from the rotation last year, he'll be fine right?? Give me a break. Enjoy the hits on your website because come midseason this site and the rest of the Phillies sites will be graveyards.
 

Phillies pitching staff is horrible.
Myers cant stay healthy.
bullpen stinks, LIDGE-- you know the guy thats hurt right now, he STINKS- he hasnt been lidge since pujols owned him... follow that up with flash gordon??? that bullpen is garbage.. call the mets when u get a real center fielder...
 

wait. didn't john main pitch a 1-hitter on the 2nd to last day of the season? Exactly
 

wait. didn't john main pitch a 1-hitter on the 2nd to last day of the season? Exactly
 

"History. Am I equating Burnitz/Vaughn/Alomar with Santana? Well, yeah I am. The '02 Mets added those guys - all very talented players - and actually did worse the next season. My point - lost amidst the vulgarity - is that games are played on grass, not on paper. We won't know what effect Santana is going to have until AFTER we get started. The presumption that the Mets will be the best team in the NL just because they added one player is an arrogant one, to say the least."


To equate those players to Johan Santana speaks to the complete misunderstanding that you have in regards to the deal. Its not just the wins that Johan brings but he also brings a sense of confidence BACK to the Mets. Remember the effect that Piazza had on the Mets. You obviously fail to see the effect that the BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL can have on a team. You are clearly underselling this move.

That prior statement completely de-legitimizes your initial thoughts.

Game Over.

Enjoy the Cheesesteak...Rocky.
 

Mets fans why don't you stop bragging about John Maine. His numbers were TERRIBLE the second half of the season. Will this carry over? Only time will tell. But mets fans you thought you had the team to beat the past two seasons and how many world series appearances do you have? Case and point.
 

Man Mike you are still grasping for straws in your response. Let's go through your points:

1. On history: Burnitz wasn't as huge an acquisition as you point him out to be. He was supposed what Ryan Church is to us now. Mo Vaughn hadn't played consistently in a while so to expect anything out of him was unrealistic. Only Alomar here is a valid point. However, he was still 34 years old and clearly about to have age catch up to him as has always been the case in baseball history. Santana is in his prime coming off of 4 years of consistency that hasn't been paralleled. So with those 3 player you mentioned it doesn't fit.

2. Maine was officially a rookie in 2006 when he posted a solid campaign and he bettered that last year so while in the 2007 off-season your point was valid it is no longer since he's proven he can contribute consistently.

3. I'll give you this one. This should be a close race but the Mets seem better in the weaknesses that did them in last year.

4. You clearly haven't seen some of the posts by Phillies fans on some of the other forums (although the lack of valid arguments with your original post doesn't show your baseball intelligence either.
 

Take your bows but the only reason you are getting so many hits from Mets fans is because your arguments are a laughable joke. If you actually just put out some legit stats or an opinion that was legit you wouldn't get that many hits.

So enjoy your popularity, if you like being the kid at school with the gum in his hair, hand me down clothes and a haircut only a mother could love that all the kids make fun of. That's you dope, enjoy it.
 

This guy went to law school? And finished? I honestly would NEVER EVER trust this guy to make a case for me, he just made a case for Johan Santana being a lousy pickup because the Mets signed Alomar and Big Mo 6 years ago. Yeah, this guy deserves to be running an insane asylum not a website about baseball.
 

phillie fanatic is out of shape.
mr met would kill him in fight
 

his "terrible" numbers are still better then 4/5ths of your rotation. And he had "phenomenal" number before the asb (after which he pitched hurt, which only proves he has heart)

Lets face it, even our FOURTH starter has ace potential.

Theres nothing I want more then a Mets/Phillies NLCS, but pitching wins playoff games, so Philly will never get past the DS
 

Hahahaha "Burrell is in a contract year ..."

Burrell is too old to even have contract years at this point. Not to mention his contract is stored at the National Baseball Archival Museum due to it being one of the last ones written on Papyrus.
 

As a baseball fan and an attorney myself, I don't know which to be more ashamed of when it comes to reading this post. The baseball analysis is laughably bad - John Maine was a 15 game winner last year who pitched a one-hitter on the second to last game of the seaosn in 2007 and, by the way, pitched great in game 6 of the 2006 NLCS. The Santana = Alomar analogy is hysterical. Reallly, I haven't laughed that hard in months. Thanks!

Worse of all, this guy is a fellow attorney? Making "arguments" as flawed as these? Yikes. Where did he get his degree? Some sort of cayman islands law school?
 

What does bringing in 3 guys in 2002 have to do with bringing in baseball's best pitcher??? That is a poor historical reference.

You can't be serious about being afraid of handing the ball to John Maine(who won 15 games)the last game of the season. Thats even if it comes down to the last game of the season.

This is a sad blog.
 

Wow, your rationalization is horrible! First off, the Phillies won just as many playoff games last year as the Mets!! Yeah, you remember getting S-W-E-P-T!!

1. History: Yes, Vaughn, Alomar, and Burnitz were terrible for the Mets but that wasn't w/ Minaya at the GM spot. Secondly, how can you argue history with Philadelphia's track record in sports!!

2. Numbers: We only needed 2 games to win the NL East last year and I'm pretty confident Santana could have bridged that gap. And yes, I'd take John Maine in the last game of the season...he almost pitched a friggin' perfect game in the 2nd to last game last year!

3. The Aging of the Roster: The lost Glavine, who last time I checked was pretty aged. They slide down Pedro (who was hurt last year!!!), Maine, and Perez one spot in the rotation...which is huge. Great point about Delgado, however he can't be much worse this year.

4. It's in thir heads: If it is, it's only as motivation.

The Phillies have terrible pitching in a box of a ballpark. And no, you won't even win the Wild Card.
 

Dude..is this a Phillies blog or a Mets blog?????? There sure looks like there are a lot more Mets fans here.....Poor Phillies...they get no respect...
 

poorly written...would the phillies be the same if you took away one player from their team? take away an mvp caliber player like santana is from the phillies...say jimmy rollins...and it makes a HUGE difference....think before you write a blog
 

are you serious about maine? Maine threw 7.2 hitless and scoreless innings, striking out 14 Florida Marlins in the second to last game of the season, a must win for the mets...i'm all for the phillies but think before you make a statement like

Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?
 

Rockies fan here cruisin baseball blogs. Gotta say you sound retarded in this post. I think you are seriously underestimating how huge this Johan signing is. First off it bumps everyone down a notch, so now John Maine is facing the #3 starter from the opposing teams instead of the ace, so even if the Orioles Maine shows up I think the Mets fan is pretty happy with this. Secondly it takes the pressure off of the bullpen in a huge way. Having a pitcher who is an automatic 6-7 innings is a giant relief for a bullpen who was overworked and the chief culprit for the collapse aka the Phillies "win". As for the Glavine thing, any fan of baseball can tell you that he was very suspect after his 300th win...and judging from his last outing, I'd say that they are pretty comfortable with his replacement. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the Mets, but they are an American League team in a league of pretenders. This is going to be a runaway for them, and I'm looking for them to be in the WS...at least they can probably win a game unlike my beloved purple and blacks.
 

Wow...so this guy is going to pat himself on the back for getting a reaction (and a lot of hits) for a blog that uses faulty logic and even sillier responses to the logic put forth in the readers' responses.

The bottom line is that the Phillies have weakened while the Mets have gotten stronger. And anyone sabermetrician will add at least one win to a team that adds Johan Santana. I hope you had fun wasting a playoff berth on a sweep to the Baby Rox because that's all the fun you Phillies fans are going to have this century. You had your shot while some of our best players were hurt (Pedro, Sanchez, Alou). Now, you will have to deal with a locked-and-loaded team.

Enjoy.

Oh, and if any Phillies fans check out this site (although it doesn't appear that they do), I recommend checking out metsblog.com to see some articles that actually involve THOUGHT.

Oh, and you're responsible for your own site. You can edit the "vulgarity" from your comments. I have my own blog, and I don't think it's inappropriate to take out profanity from comments. But, like I said, ultimately, that is your responsibility. Don't pin that on Mets fans.
 

Wow...so this guy is going to pat himself on the back for getting a reaction (and a lot of hits) for a blog that uses faulty logic and even sillier responses to the logic put forth in the readers' responses.

The bottom line is that the Phillies have weakened while the Mets have gotten stronger. And anyone sabermetrician will add at least one win to a team that adds Johan Santana. I hope you had fun wasting a playoff berth on a sweep to the Baby Rox because that's all the fun you Phillies fans are going to have this century. You had your shot while some of our best players were hurt (Pedro, Sanchez, Alou). Now, you will have to deal with a locked-and-loaded team.

Enjoy.

Oh, and if any Phillies fans check out this site (although it doesn't appear that they do), I recommend checking out metsblog.com to see some articles that actually involve THOUGHT.

Oh, and you're responsible for your own site. You can edit the "vulgarity" from your comments. I have my own blog, and I don't think it's inappropriate to take out profanity from comments. But, like I said, ultimately, that is your responsibility. Don't pin that on Mets fans.
 

"History. Am I equating Burnitz/Vaughn/Alomar with Santana? Well, yeah I am. The '02 Mets added those guys - all very talented players - and actually did worse the next season."

Your error in analyzing the Burnitz/Vaughn/Alomar trio is the same one made when the players were brought to the Mets -- they're being over-valued.

Vaughn missed the entire season due to injury. In 2000, he had 181 strikeouts in 614 AB's (29.4% rate) and hit only .272 (though he did have good RBI and power numbers).

In 2001, Burnitz hit only .251 with 150 SO's in 562 AB's (26.6% rate), with decent RBI and power numbers.

I have yet to meet a Mets fan who agreed with trading for both of those guys. Either one might have been defensible, but adding that many strikeouts and foolishly expecting power numbers to hold steady when switching to playing at Shea Stadium was beyond foolish.

(As for Alomar, well... I can't remember anyone, myself included, who thought that was a bad move. In fact, it seemed like a steal at the time.)

In the case of Santana, the near universal consensus is that it's a solid move (especially since, as a pitcher, his stats can be expected to improve at Shea, rather than suffer the way strikeout-prone power hitters do). The only negative is the money the Mets spent, and the possible roster issues they'll have in 2009.

In 2002, the Mets not only traded for players that didn't really fit with the franchise's traditional strength (pitching, defense, and small ball, which take advantage of the home field), but they also traded away pitching (e.g., Appier and Rusch) to get those bad players.

So equating Vaughn/Burnitz/Alomar to Santana -- solely on the basis that they're all "star" acquisitions -- is insultingly simplistic. If you're going to take the time to write an entry, have the decency to do at least 5 minutes' worth of research.
 

FROM THE BLOG OWNER'S AMAZON PROFILE:

In my own words
I am a 1999 graduate of the University of Pittsburgh (History & Political Science), now presently involved in the study of law in the city of Pittsburgh. "I have an eclectic mix of interests", ranging from history to politics to "fiction".

The fiction explains it ALL
 

Can't comment anymore, apparently.
 

John Maine almost pitched a no hitter in the second to last game last year to bring us into a tie with the phillies. Not worried about giving him the ball in a pressure situation. Would be more worried about the phillies third or fourth starter.
 

Mike, your arguments were terrible, but I think that you know that. I give you much credit for allowing us to pound on you. (Seriously.) If this were Beerleaguer, Weitzel would've been furiously blocking/reviewing every single comment that questioned him or the Phillies. Nice to know that you allow an open forum.

I'd be happy to buy you beers at CBP for being a stand-up guy.
 

you... are kidding, right?

and to answer your question, yes, I would be very, very comfortable giving John Maine the ball.
 

Not that Met fans care about such things, but....even with the awesome start on the next to the last day of the Mets season, his ERAs in those months were 6.32 and 5.93, with a 3-5 won/loss. But let's not forget he gave them their only decent start in the last week of the season when the Mets coughed up nearly every game.
 

Would I be comfortable pitching John Maine on the last day of the season? HELL NO! He should be resting so he's ready for the playoffs. Why pitch a guy who's good enough to be an ace on a lot of teams(but is your #4) when you clinched the division 1 month ago?
 

1st base - Howard v. Delgado - Howard by a lot
2nd base - Utley v. Castillo - Utley hands down
Shortstop - Rollins v Reyes - depends on the year
3rd base - Wright v Feliz - Wright hands down
Catcher - Schneider v Ruiz - wash (but Schneider better with pitchers)

Backup Catcher - Castro v Coste - Castro much better

Centerfield - Beltran v Victorino - Beltran

Rightfield - Jenkins v Church - wash

Leftfield - Burrell v Alou - depends on the year and health

Bench - wash

These teams are an even match offensively.
 

Although I agree with many of the points aforementioned, I believe there may still be a reason to worry about the mets.

Us Phillies fans forget that the Mets really beat themselves last year. I give us a lot of credit but that was really a mental breakdown on their part. I think that last year, had their minds been in the games, they really would have coasted to the playoffs. With the addition of Santana they become a real force to be reckoned with.

I think we have a shot at the NL East but we really have to pray that the Mets mental game was completely rattled by last years collapse and that the addition of Johan won't ameliorate those mental issues.

Since we are the incumbent Division Champs, we are technically the team to beat, however it isn't going to be nearly as easy as last year when essentially the Mets handed us the division. (Sorry if I sound somewhat pessimistic, but I'm a realist and I've lived through a lot of heartbreak)

Good Luck Phils
 

1. History: So if history is a factor, maybe the phillies will go another 92 years before winning another WS...LOL PATHETIC

2. Numbers: The addition of one player rarely makes the sort of impact that people are talking about here.

Hey Numb Nuts, as posted by numerous people already, Pedro is taking Glavine's spot and we add Johan's 18+ wins...LOL

And Yes I would want John Maine Starting the last game of the year with the division on the line...He won in the playoffs in 06, something NO phillies pitcher did in 07....LOL




3. The Aging of their Roster: Jamie Moyer and Tom Gordon should both be collecting Social Security, so what the hell are you talking about age for.

4. It’s in their heads: Apparently, it's in your heads, because we know that we under achieved last year, and you over achieved and only got the division by us handing it to you...We got the Best pitcher in baseball, a healthy Pedro and two 15 game winners in the 3 & 4 slots....Think about that...LOL


So there you go, Phillies fans. Four very good reasons why the Phillies might just still be the joke of the N.L. East in 2008.
 

I like how you use "history" as a way to delude yourself.

I can do it too.

Brad Lidge will miss the whole season. remember Freddy Garcia? lol!

Ryan Howard will leave Philly as soon as he can. just like Rolen! Ha HA!

it's irrelevant to talk about what happened on a team made up of 25 different players, with a different manager and a different GM.


p.s. your clueless management should've traded for Valverde. Houston HOSED you.
 

Hey guys whatever helps you sleep at night. Lets play the 162 games before we proclaim any team as the team to beat. If you don't think the Mets are better thats great. I'm a Mets fan and I think they are better than last year while the Phillies are about the same. Thats my opinion and opinions get us no where just look at the Superbowl. If we learned anything from last year it is that anything can happen.
 

LOL,I think it's funny how METS fans invaded this Phillies blog, bottom line The Mets are the team to beat!!

Mets - 95 wins
Phillies- 87 wins
Braves- 86 wins
 

LOL,I think it's funny how METS fans invaded this Phillies blog, bottom line The Mets are the team to beat!!

Mets - 95 wins
Phillies- 87 wins
Braves- 86 wins
 

"Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?"

Randolph handed Maine the ball in the next to last game of the season with their backs against the wall, must win situation, and he threw a 1-hitter.

As a Mets fan, I feel very comfortable with Maine in the situation you described.
 

It is very funny to read phillie fans write about how the Mets have not gotten much better. First off Pedro will be in the rotation he is much better then Tom Glavine, Santana is the best pitcher in baseball and John Maine and Oliver Perez are better then every pitcher the phillies have but Hamels. Instead of talking about the Mets you should be worried about your pitching staff and bullpen. The Mets will Win the Division and the Phillies have a chance at the wild card, but they are going to have to get lucky. They will not win more games then last year.
 

1. History is not a reason.

2. The Mets added a full strength Pedro Martinez in addition to Santana. Two upgrades over Glavine.

Also, Maine threw an 8 inning 1 hitter the second to last game of the season last year, in arguably the best pitching performance of the season. He can take the ball any day.

3. The mets offense is prolific at 3 positions with speed and power mixed in to the remainder of the lineup. There is no reason to expect a drop in run production. There is a reason to expect opposing run production to be down.

4. Also not a reason. I imagine based on your skewed logic the Phillies aren't going to forget being swept by the Rockies in the last three games of their season.

Mets 105-57
Braves 86-76
Phillies 84-78
 

i just took a shit and its better than the #3 pitcher for the phils...btw phillie fans are used to our abuse...just listen to our fans in their stadium...get used to it this year
 

The Mets are really up-graded at 4 spots. Pedro upgrades Glavines spot, Santana upgrades, the 5th starter, a full season Castillo at 2B upgrades Gotay/Valentin, and Ryan Church upgrades Shawn Green in rightfield.

Those critical of Maine and Perez should look at the numbers. 3.50 ERA's and 15 wins.

The Phils upgraded 3rd base, but will not get Rowland's production in CF this year.
 

Q= What does this blog and and Citizen's Bank Park have in common????

A= More Met Fans than Phillie Fans.
 

Q= What does Brett Myers have in common with Ike Turner???

A= They're both from the south!
 

Mike: Do you really feel comfortable, Mets fans, with Willie Randolph handing the ball to John Maine on the last game of the season?

Mike,

Quite simply, the attempt to proclaim John Maine as a guy not to be depended on, with the game on the line, is ludicrous. In fact I'll take Maine over anyone in the Phillies rotation save maybe, the Phillies ace. Read on:

Last season, John Maine, the Mets CURRENT #4 pitcher, finished in the top ten in the league in both W and K, with an ERA under 4.00. You may have been picking on the wrong guy when trying to project some false idea that Maine is not to be counted on.

More importantly and relative to the idea of "clutch", perhaps you missed the last time Randolph handed the ball to Maine with the season on the line. The date was September 29, 2007. Maine gave up 1 hit and 0 ER in a 14 K, dominating performance, which he carried deep into the 8th inning. Glavine got rocked the next day to no fault of Maine's, but Maine was clutch when he had to be. For more on Maine's clutch history, I'll take the 2006 post season performances as further evidence to support the idea that your insinuation is rather bogus.....

Maine's 2006 Post Season:
In 13.2 IP he K'd 13 with a 2.63 ERA.

Let's see how the Mets #4 pitcher, John Maine, compared to the Phillies Ace, Cole Hamels, in IP, ERA, BAA, W, and K's last season.

John Maine
191 IP
.235 BAA
180 K
15 W (tied)

Cole Hamels
183 IP
.237 BAA
177 K
15 W (tied)

So basically the guy you are knocking Mike, a guy at the back end of the Mets rotation, was on par with the best pitcher the Phillies have to offer. Now I'll be fair and admit that Citizen's Bank Park is a joke of a stadium, which inflates offensive production drastically. And Hamels had 5 less losses than Maine. So the edge goes to Hamels. But isn't it scary Mike, that our #4 man isn't so far behind your #1 guy? And do you feel comfortable with Charlie Mauel handing the ball to your ace, in the clutch? A fact for you, Maine's last NLDS numbers compared favorably to Hamels', who went 0-1 against Colorado, allowing over one base runner per inning, with a 4.05 ERA in the clutch, an ERA almost 1.5 runs worse than John Maine.

Don
www.getsbybuckner.blogspot.com
 

There is no way that the Phillies have a better pitching staff come on. The only best pitcher on the Phils is Hamels who is a pussy and might get injured again. You know that the Phillies are going to take shit when they face the Mets because you are going to be scared. The Mets have four pitchers that you could rely on.
 

THE METS ARE THE TEAM TO BEAT!
 

May I leave my .02 cents:

If Eaton can rebound and the Phillies staff stays healthy then the Phils will contend with the Mets pitching staff.

The Phils aren't the big marquee names your seeing on the covers of Sports Illustrated every week.

I used to be a Mets fan years ago, with the Phils a close second. Over the last 10 years or so I made the change after the acquisitions of players like Vaughn, and Alomar.

The legacy of the 'Pedro Mets' or 'Beltran Mets' will be the complete collapse at the end of the season last year. This is worse than Buckner's gaff! Worse! It's not a single play but it is the complete and utter demise of a ballclub that was a shoe in to make the playoffs and watched from home.
 

You couldn't be more off base in your assessment.

1. Do you really believe that 2002 will have any effect on 2008? Consider that Brady Clark is the only player that was on the 2002 roster. This is a completely different team. There is absolutely no connection between 2002 and 2008, and to use that as a reason why the Mets may not prosper is absurd.

2. The Mets rotation is absolutely a strength. Forget the fact that the team absolutely lacked an ace last season, and filled that void with the best pitcher in the game in Santana. Do you just conveniently ignore the fact that John Maine and oliver Perez each won 15 games last year? Or that a healthy Pedro Martinez is now the team's #2 starter, not the ace? As for the bullpen, Duaner Sanchez, the N.L.'s best setup man in 2006, returns, as Mota, one of the worst, departs. Heilman now moves back to the 7th inning, making the entore bullpen stronger. If anything, the "numbers" essentially refute your assertion that the Mets pitching is not infinitely better in 2008.

3. Yes Delgado was terrible last season. However, with players like Jose Reyes and Luis Castillo setting the table, and David Wright, Carlos Beltran and Moises Alou driving them in, the Mets don't need Delgado to be a stud. They need him to be decent.

4. In their heads: In my opinion, this is the only valid point you made. Only time will tell how last season's collapse effects the Mets in 2008.
 

Wozzy,

All individual stats aside, there hasn't been a team that far ahead and collapse like the Amazin's did last year.

The manager should have been fired, why he wasn't is an interesting topic on it's own. The GM must have some sort of soft spot for him. This was a total lack of play by the Mets, and it should have meant the end of his career as the Mets skipper. What more would he have to do to screw up?

Will the collapse have an effect on them this year? Mentally it will, we'll have to see how bad it affects them. Don't forget about the Braves as well they look to improve.

Randolph should have been a broadcaster or something else this year other than a Met's manager.
 

philly sports talk now:

Willie should have been fired for any number of reasons, but he wasn't. He is Charlie Manuel-bad when it comes to game management, but I guess he gets another shot to win in '08.

However, I don't agree at all with the Phillies' fan assertion (which y'all desperately cling to) that it's "in their heads."

If I choked away a lead like that, I would spend ALL OFFSEASON stewing and committing myself to kicking @$$ the next year. And I'd have a life lesson to carry through my entire baseball career to never take anything for granted. If anything, the collapse will make the Mets more dangerous. To believe that they'll just pull down their pants and lie on their stomachs for the Phillies is beyond stupid, but that's indicative of a Philly sports fan.
 

The Mets rotation has improved, but their clubhouse attitude sucks, while the Phils are tight. That goes a long way in a long season, especially when the NY fans turn on them.

Santana's a great addition, but he is one guy in an aging clubhouse. I would trade Adam Eaton for Santana, though. Maybe even through in Kris Benson.
 

If you were paying attention last year, you could see the panic on the Mets at the beginning of the Phillies’ sweep of the Mets. Sorry, I’m talking about the 4-game sweep at CPB in August, as opposed to the 3-game sweep at Shea in May or the 3-game sweep at Shea in September.

Everybody—and that includes Wright—whined like a bunch of ladies whenever things didn’t go well. Like when Anderson was correctly called for going waaay out of the way to take out J-Roll. Milledge’s melt-down speaks for itself. And how about Lo Duca? I’m surprised the Mitchell report didn’t show that he was taking estrogen pills. You’re lucky they’re both outta here.

Glad to see you guys have shut up about Reyes. Compared against Rollins, Ramirez and the Braves’ Escobar, he could be the fourth best shortstop in the division.

Santana is a great add, and more than makes up for Glavine’s innings. But you need 8 others to make things happen. We’ll see they can.
 

Alright Mets fans I'll start off by saying that you guys had some valid points and the OP of the blog didn't have very strong arguments. With that said the fact of the matter is that the Phillies are still the returning NL East Champs and are the team to beat.

The Phillies took 12 of 18 from the Met's and have won the last 8 games vs. you guys. That's not something you can just forget about. The loss of Rowand hurt but the addition of Jenkins almost nullifies the loss of Rowand by way of production. The Feliz acquisition improves 3rd base tremendously and may sure up arguably the best offensive infield in baseball.

Not quite sure why Shane "Flying Hawaiian" Victorino is getting so much hate. His 10 OF assists were great considering everybody decided not to test his arm after July and his 37 SB's after a month off due to injury is impressive too.

The Phillies pitching has improved to. Myer's going to the rotation was a great move and give's us three reliable starters(I'm including Moyer here b/c of his saviness with age).

I like the Mets rotation and think they are stronger then Phils. But Other than CF and 3rd I truly believe the Phils are better at every other position.
 

I swear all these Mets comments are the same person.
 

Phillies and Mets? Kind of like discussing whether to buy and Edsel or a Yugo. Both suck and will go no where. Come on discuss real teams with a real chance. Pirates anyone?
 

Why is Rollins being called a criminal and thug by mets fans ? Jealousy over the division/MVP or are they just being that ignorant ?
 

I guess Pedro ain't a thug though, what with his dog fighting and beating up Old men on TV.
 

Wow, as Mets fan I am embarassed. Philly fans get the bad reputation, but we're not far behind. Disgusting.
 

Dear Met Fans,

Please Mets fans, when you come here and invade our stadium again this year, please please don't beat me up and steal my girlfriend again...We citizens of philadelphia are a fat and ugly sort, and find it hard to keep our women away from all those good looking New Yorkers. I mean I can't believe you guys actually bath every day. I don't know anyone who does that, except maybe the ball players after the game.

Regards,

Phat Philly Phans
 

What's the differnce between a Phillies fan, and a bucket of shit?

The Bucket.
 

Hey New Yorkers, shouldn't you all be at work at the World Trade Center... oh wait.
 

I can't wait to take the 7 Train to the ballpark, looking like I'm riding through Beirut next to some kid with purple hair, next to some queer with AIDS, right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time, right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. And then I can go home and kiss my guinea mom on the mustache. I love being a New Yorker.
 

I don't think I can agree with ou here Mike... mainly because much or your arguements are not viewed at both teams.

Let's take a quick look here:

HISTORY: You're going to use one year (one that was over five years ago also) as your "history" example? Have your forgotten that history also sees the Phillies fall short most years? Even last year was more that the Mets tailspin was teh main reason the Phils won the divison. Even with winning the last seven games, if the Mets had won just ONCE more against the Nats or Marlins we wouldn't be having this discussion. If history is one of your big reasons, the history is MUCH worse for the Phils overall than the Mets. The Phils history is one of falling short.

NUMBERS: You really don;t make an arguement here at all. Do Met fans feel comfortable with handing the Ball to John Maine (who made the all-star team last year, won 15 games and tossed eight shutout innings on the second last day of the season in a MUST win sitution)? Yes. I'm syre Met fans are MORE than willing to hand the ball to John Maine. In fact... you want numbers? How is this: The Phillies #3 and #4 pitchers (Kyle Kendrick: 10-4 record, 3.87 ERA, 49 strike-outs in 121 innings, 1.27 WHIP,.280 batting average against and Jamie Moyer: 14-12 record, 5.01 ERA, 133 strike-outs in 199.1 innings, 1.44 WHIP, .85 batting average against) are not as good as the Mets #3 and #4 pitchers (John Maine: 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA, 180 strike-outs in 191 innings, 1.27 WHIP, .235 batting average against and Oliver Perez: 15-10 record, 3.56 ERA, 174 strike-outs in 177 innings, 1.31 WHIP, .229 batting average against). Even the most rabid Phil fan will not try and compare the Phils #1 and #2 and the Mets #1 and #2 so I don't think numbers are needed. Hamels and Myers are both good picthers but Hamels was hurt very often and Myers not only was hurt often last year... but he just was only just above average as a starter the two years before than (12-7 in 2006, 13-8 in 2005). You want to talk numbers? That arguement is, once again, worse for the Phils then the Mets.

3. AGING OF THE ROSTER: Here, your arguement is a good one. Two important cogs in the wheel of offense for the Mets is Delgado and Alou, both who are aging. With Alou, the prodictivity is there, and in spades... but you know you wo;t have him for more than (at best) 125 games... if at that. With Delgado... he needs to be more like the version the Mets had in 2006 than what they had in 2007. However, with players such as Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Castillo and Church who are NOT old and ARE healthy, the Mets offense is still strong. Add in the very strong starting rotation (as I showed above), and I don;t think the Mets will live and die sorely on Delgado's bat alone.

4. IT'S IN THEIR HEADS: Not only would EVERY major league player argue this point with you, I think it's ridiculous to even bring it up. Was it in the Phillies heads in 2007 that they wilted in the last quarter of the season like they did in 2005 and 2006? No. Was the four game sweep the Mets suffered at the hands of the phils in their hands when they went into Atlanta (a house of horrors for them) and swept the Braves? No. Jose Reyes had an amazing 2007 season. He had a lousy last six weeks. Those last six weeks were the ONLY point in the season he wasn't on fire. So basically you're saying cause his slump (which EVERY MAJOR LEAUGER HAS IN EVERY SEASON) happened to happen at the end instead of say... in the middle of July... it shows how it was in his head and he whithered in a pennet race? How about in June, July and Agust when the Mets were in just as big of a pennant race? In fact... Reyes was HOT when the Mets were a game behind the Braves in June or tied in July when the pressure is JUST as big. In the end.. if you are relying on it "being in their heads" for the Phils to win the division... then... start looking forward to football season.

In the end, the Phillies have much more holes than the Mets do. Lidge is already hurt and he was never a lock to be productive as the closer since he's been fairly bad the last few years. Rollins, Utley, Howard and Victorino are all excellent/solid but the rest of the team is suspect. The starting pitching has many questions marks and in frankly... just isn't that imposing after injury risk Hammels. The Mets DO have their own questions: (Pedro's health, Delgado, Sanchez's health, the bullpen) but the Mets questions are less imposing. It should be a great year... but I have to say I think you are grasping at straws here.
 

"Hey New Yorkers, shouldn't you all be at work at the World Trade Center... oh wait." How the hell can u even joke about that?!
 

For the love of God will everyone please stop using Wins as a measure of a pitcher's effectiveness. The number of wins a pitcher gets is largely dependent upon run support the pitcher gets. An example for Mets fans, Oliver Perez in 2004 pitched 196 innings, had 239 K's, had a WHIP of 1.15, and an ERA of 2.98. Last year, Perez pitched 177 innings, had 174 K's, had a WHIP of 1.31, and an ERA of 3.56. Now which version of Oliver Perez would you rather have? If you judged him just based on his number of wins you would have picked the clearly inferior 2007 version who had 15 wins while the 2004 version only had 12 wins. The difference was the 2004 Pirates offense against the 2007 Mets offense. This is why wins suck as a measure of how good a pitcher is.
 

Zack is 100% right on wins being pointless in measuring a pitchers effectiveness. There is groundball/flyball ratio, pitches per inning, whip and so on. Right now I'm giving the Mets the edge in almost all pitching categories. Our top 2 are close to equal with Hamels and Myers vs. Johan and Pedro. No offense to Johan, but he did decline a lot last year in hr's allowed and whip...plus this is Hamels 3rd year in the show where pitchers are supposed to show their true dominance. It's after the top 2 where the Mets in my opinion have the advantage. John Maine and Oliver Perez (as long as he can control his walks) are better than our 3 and 4 Kendric and Moyer. Meanwhile on the other side of the ball I think our lineup supersedes the mets any day of the week. The Mets infield is pretty good, but no way as formiddable as the Phillies even with Pedro Feliz manning 3rd. The outfield is also in the Phillies favor. Werth and Jenkins provide a formiddable combo in rf while Burrell is always a Mets killer. Beltran wins over Victorino obviously. Victorino is the Flyin' Hawaiian though and has a much cooler nickname. I

mean no offense to the Braves, but half of their rotation might be collecting social security. Do they have enough depth in their rotation to make it through a whole season? I do expect Jair Jurriens to have to spot start a lot this season.

Either way it will be another exciting, competitive, and intense battle for the N.L. East this year.
I can't freakin' wait.
 

Hey guys, I wasn't trying to use only wins as a barometer of success (which is why I listed innings, strikeouts, whip and such also when comparing the pitchers)... and I do agree that wins is not the best way to measure a pitcher's worth.

The Mets certainly do have some issues with their everyday line up. With Beltran still not up to speed after off-season surgery (which is something I did not realize in my arguement above) and Delgado and Alou already hurting then there are some real questions there. Utley, Rollins, Howard and Feliz is a better overall infield than Wright, Reyes, Delgado and Castillo, but mainly due to the questions about Delgado. If the Mets get the 2006 Delgado instead of the 2007 one, then it's much closer and almost even actually (although the Phillies CERTAINLY have more power even with a healthy Delgado). As of now, I see the picthing as being the main crux of giving the Mets the overall edge. Santana DID have an off year last year... you are correct, although I honestly do not think that will be much of a factor.. especially with the switch to the NL and the pitchers ballpark the Mets have. If Pedro is healthy (and all accoutns seem to indicate he is) then the Mets have two legit #1 starters (And while Pedro is NOT the same guy he was in 1999 or even 2002... we certainly can be the same guy he was in 2005). Add in what I honestly beleive will be solid years from Maine and Perez who had very good seasons last year, the return of a healthy (and looking great) Sanchez to the bullpen and I think the pitching difference is huge. Pitching and defense wins championships and the Mets certainly have a lot of that (even with a basically average glove at best at 1st with Delgado).

The Phillies are certainly a good team and I think it'll be quite the dogfight. In fact, I'll go as far as to say the NL East race will be the most exciting one in baseball this year. Looking at 5the rest of the NL, both the Mets and Phils have tha ability to make the wild card if they don;t win the division so the debate might even go on into the playoffs!

Good luck to both teams. Obviously I feel the Mets will win in the end as much as you Philly fans think the Phils will win. We'll have to wait and see who is right!
 

Funny looking back at these clowns' posts at the 1/4 of the season mark. They were so cocky, weren't there.

Now they're all over at FireWillie.com or DelgadoMustGo.com.
 

Just reading all the comments from the brain trust that is the Mets fan base as their team is in the process of imploding is glorious. The season isn't over and a lot can happen, but I know that the Mets fans couldn't have predicted sitting 2 games under .500 in mid-June. The fact is that the Mets look good on paper and that's about it. The best part is the fact that I heard their fans alluding to the fact that the Mets will be stepping a little bit out of the Yankees shadow this year. So far, so wrong. The Mets are the #2 team in New York and that's how it's always gonna be.